Editorial: Fickle hiveminds know no bounds

iddqd

I considered staying away from this topic, but it bothered me sufficiently to the point where I thought it was worth writing about. I understand the purpose of Reddit and other boards in which opinions are showcased—the most popular opinions are drawn to the top through voting, and a communal opinion is usually formed. Some threads will have true discussions in which there is no consensus; unfortunately, the threads I'm referring to have a fairly strong repeated opinion.

For whatever reason, the competitive community will form a permanent opinion on any professional player and hold onto it for however long they feel is appropriate whenever ANY sort of controversy emerges—whether it's true or not. No issue highlights such a phenomenon more than the hate brigade surrounding André "iddqd" Dahlström's attempt at a Bronze to Grandmaster stream.

To be clear, tanking his account to a super low Skill Rating was certainly not the right thing to do. Other streamers have done this experiment, but tanking games is never okay given innocent people might be affected. However, the community's response was borderline ridiculous. iddqd later admitted he didn't consider the games might be skewed because he deliberately fell to a low rank, and he apologized on his stream, but doing so was not enough: people on Reddit cried out that he was an incredibly toxic player and that he demonstrated poor sportsmanship. "No wonder he got kicked from his team," read a comment before it was later deleted by a moderator. Many of the most upvoted comments were simply attacking iddqd's character, as people did not stop to think that he might have made an honest mistake. Some even exclaimed that he should be banned, stripped of all of his Overwatch accounts.

In any case, iddqd never displayed real toxicity—the extent of his conversation on stream was entertaining viewers and joking about the objectively poor play he encountered down under 1000 SR. Community members used iddqd's departure from Fnatic to determine that he's indeed toxic without ever even bothering to interact with him. When word got out that he was trialling for NRG, people in the community seemingly either praised his skill or bashed his assumed behavior, though the latter category seemed to be more represented.

He is of course not the only player to deal with this kind of criticism—with or without reason. Remember the drama surrounding Taimou and Surefour when the community was convinced they cheated? Their lives were made needlessly harder by a hivemind opinion that did not stop to consider the other side of the issue. The first time anybody is labelled as "toxic" is all the community needs to repeatedly pedal such an opinion. We have repeated claims by FaZe that Erik "TwoEasy" van Hoorn was not a bad teammate, and he even has a track record of owning up to his mistakes (his toxicity while on REUNITED). Yet, when TwoEasy lost his spot on the active roster, the only opinion that was supported that he was toxic towards his teammates yet again.

Remember that our opinions are not just words. The way we present our community to the public is important. Both Taimou and Surefour have proven themselves again and again, but people from the main Subreddit will still, to this day, claim that the two players are cheaters. Remember that the community's actions are not without consequence, that they will be jumped on by outsiders; that's exactly what spawned this garbage.

By no means am I asking people to believe only what is spoon-fed to them—reading between the lines is often necessary! Needlessly downvoting people that are excited to see iddqd compete again or continually parroting opinions you've seen but did not form for yourself are not exactly conducive to an open environment, where discussion can occur without attacking one another, though.

#1
6 Frags +

Didn't iddqd get kicked twice for personality reasons? That doesn't mean toxic, but it surely means a personality that fits uneasily in a team.

Didn't iddqd get kicked twice for personality reasons? That doesn't mean toxic, but it surely means a personality that fits uneasily in a team.
#2
3 Frags +

Is this editorial really necessary? People will still have their circle-jerks and mob-mentality attacks on players without knowing the full story or knowing the player, that's just how the internet is and this is exceptionally prevalent on reddit.
Don't get me wrong it was a good read, but the point wasn't really one that needed to be written up like this.

Is this editorial really necessary? People will still have their circle-jerks and mob-mentality attacks on players without knowing the full story or knowing the player, that's just how the internet is and this is exceptionally prevalent on reddit.
Don't get me wrong it was a good read, but the point wasn't really one that needed to be written up like this.
#3
8 Frags +

Nice Reddit bait :>

Nice Reddit bait :>
#4
11 Frags +
PendaIs this editorial really necessary? People will still have their circle-jerks and mob-mentality attacks on players without knowing the full story or knowing the player, that's just how the internet is and this is exceptionally prevalent on reddit.
Don't get me wrong it was a good read, but the point wasn't really one that needed to be written up like this.

One could argue that assuming this attitude is inherent and unchangeable in internet culture is a reason why it's so prevalent.

[quote=Penda]Is this editorial really necessary? People will still have their circle-jerks and mob-mentality attacks on players without knowing the full story or knowing the player, that's just how the internet is and this is exceptionally prevalent on reddit.
Don't get me wrong it was a good read, but the point wasn't really one that needed to be written up like this.[/quote]

One could argue that assuming this attitude is inherent and unchangeable in internet culture is a reason why it's so prevalent.
#5
3 Frags +

Initially I was wondering what's the purpose of this article, and was thinking that this wouldn't help against the Internet horde mentality where people would do whatever they want without really considering the consequences of their words/actions. It's not uncommon where people get pounced on for their mistakes on the Internet to a disproportionate extent.

Just my opinion that this article serves to raise awareness of negative impacts that could arise from postings online and reminded some other users that perhaps what they have been insensitive and being too harsh on players. That alone is suffice reason. Although I didn't follow much regarding the iddqd incident, this was a good reminder for me personally that players themselves would still be affected by whatever happens online. It's easy to forget players have feelings too.

Don't get me wrong; constructive criticism is fine, but users of all platforms should be responsible with what they do and not jump to conclusions or be overly critical.

Initially I was wondering what's the purpose of this article, and was thinking that this wouldn't help against the Internet horde mentality where people would do whatever they want without really considering the consequences of their words/actions. It's not uncommon where people get pounced on for their mistakes on the Internet to a disproportionate extent.

Just my opinion that this article serves to raise awareness of negative impacts that could arise from postings online and reminded some other users that perhaps what they have been insensitive and being too harsh on players. That alone is suffice reason. Although I didn't follow much regarding the [i]iddqd[/i] incident, this was a good reminder for me personally that players themselves would still be affected by whatever happens online. It's easy to forget players have feelings too.

Don't get me wrong; constructive criticism is fine, but users of all platforms should be responsible with what they do and not jump to conclusions or be overly critical.
#6
4 Frags +

You can't fight the hivemind.

Reddit's design causes it to become an echochamber due to the misuse of upvotes.

That said, it is a shame that people are so quick to latch on to others opinions with little to no evidence.

You can't fight the hivemind.

Reddit's design causes it to become an echochamber due to the misuse of upvotes.

That said, it is a shame that people are so quick to latch on to others opinions with little to no evidence.
#7
5 Frags +

This is not unique to reddit but the world in general.

This is not unique to reddit but the world in general.
#8
4 Frags +

It's not unique to reddit but it is definitely exacerbated by the upvote/downvote system. If one side of a discussion becomes even just a slight majority that side can essentially silence their opposition, once one side starts to get traction it gains exponentially more because their slightly favored posts go to the top and get even more views/votes while the slightly less favored posts go to the bottom or get completely hidden. As soon as a narrative starts to form everything else is obscured. IDDQD, TwoEasy and Talespin have all fallen victim to this.

It's not unique to reddit but it is definitely exacerbated by the upvote/downvote system. If one side of a discussion becomes even just a slight majority that side can essentially silence their opposition, once one side starts to get traction it gains exponentially more because their slightly favored posts go to the top and get even more views/votes while the slightly less favored posts go to the bottom or get completely hidden. As soon as a narrative starts to form everything else is obscured. IDDQD, TwoEasy and Talespin have all fallen victim to this.
#9
3 Frags +

Also they're mostly young guys, and you need them for an esports audience. Sloppy groupthink is as inevitable as memes. I don't see a better solution than releasing the correct information before hearsay has a chance to become embedded.

Also they're mostly young guys, and you need them for an esports audience. Sloppy groupthink is as inevitable as memes. I don't see a better solution than releasing the correct information before hearsay has a chance to become embedded.
#10
3 Frags +
fraacI don't see a better solution than releasing the correct information before hearsay has a chance to become embedded.

Given that "professionalism" dictates that orgs and players should just clam up / release empty press releases in the face of controversy, I think they will have to learn to live with the memes and flames, just as celebrities in all other fields do.

[quote=fraac]I don't see a better solution than releasing the correct information before hearsay has a chance to become embedded.[/quote]

Given that "professionalism" dictates that orgs and players should just clam up / release empty press releases in the face of controversy, I think they will have to learn to live with the memes and flames, just as celebrities in all other fields do.
#11
1 Frags +
PendaIs this editorial really necessary? People will still have their circle-jerks and mob-mentality attacks on players without knowing the full story or knowing the player, that's just how the internet is and this is exceptionally prevalent on reddit.

I don't think this kind of thing is exclusive to just the internet. In sports journalism the same kind of mob mentality exists when they label players and teams a certain way. Players get labeled as toxic and selfish among other insults yet when teammates, coaches, staff members about the same players they say the complete opposite.

I take everything from the media, on or offline with a grain of salt. The media loves to stir up nonsense and the simple minded eat it up like groceries, all while the world continues to slowly spin.

[quote=Penda]Is this editorial really necessary? People will still have their circle-jerks and mob-mentality attacks on players without knowing the full story or knowing the player, that's just how the internet is and this is exceptionally prevalent on reddit.[/quote]
I don't think this kind of thing is exclusive to just the internet. In sports journalism the same kind of mob mentality exists when they label players and teams a certain way. Players get labeled as toxic and selfish among other insults yet when teammates, coaches, staff members about the same players they say the complete opposite.

I take everything from the media, on or offline with a grain of salt. The media loves to stir up nonsense and the simple minded eat it up like groceries, all while the world continues to slowly spin.
#12
3 Frags +
famikinsPendaIs this editorial really necessary? People will still have their circle-jerks and mob-mentality attacks on players without knowing the full story or knowing the player, that's just how the internet is and this is exceptionally prevalent on reddit.I don't think this kind of thing is exclusive to just the internet. In sports journalism the same kind of mob mentality exists when they label players and teams a certain way. Players get labeled as toxic and selfish among other insults yet when teammates, coaches, staff members about the same players they say the complete opposite.

I take everything from the media, on or offline with a grain of salt. The media loves to stir up nonsense and the simple minded eat it up like groceries, all while the world continues to slowly spin.

It's just more obvious on the internet (especially reddit or sites like this) where you upvote things

[quote=famikins][quote=Penda]Is this editorial really necessary? People will still have their circle-jerks and mob-mentality attacks on players without knowing the full story or knowing the player, that's just how the internet is and this is exceptionally prevalent on reddit.[/quote]
I don't think this kind of thing is exclusive to just the internet. In sports journalism the same kind of mob mentality exists when they label players and teams a certain way. Players get labeled as toxic and selfish among other insults yet when teammates, coaches, staff members about the same players they say the complete opposite.

I take everything from the media, on or offline with a grain of salt. The media loves to stir up nonsense and the simple minded eat it up like groceries, all while the world continues to slowly spin.[/quote]
It's just more obvious on the internet (especially reddit or sites like this) where you upvote things
#13
-2 Frags +

I watched IDDQD troll and make fun of the less skilled bronze players in front of >10,000 viewers on his stream. The criticism was warranted.

I watched IDDQD troll and make fun of the less skilled bronze players in front of >10,000 viewers on his stream. The criticism was warranted.
#14
1 Frags +

nothing good ever comes from the overwatch reddit aside from exploits.

nothing good ever comes from the overwatch reddit aside from exploits.
#15
5 Frags +

I'm not really a fan of him or how he acts on stream as it feels very disingenuous. However I'm not one of the people that are going around bad mouthing a player or anything like that. I think he is a very skilled player and I respect his skill a lot. I hope he can work out his "personality issues" so he can join a team and continue to play.

I'm not really a fan of him or how he acts on stream as it feels very disingenuous. However I'm not one of the people that are going around bad mouthing a player or anything like that. I think he is a very skilled player and I respect his skill a lot. I hope he can work out his "personality issues" so he can join a team and continue to play.
#16
2 Frags +

An interesting read but nevertheless this is a topic that can never be translated perfectly across the spectrum of players. Perhaps one day we will receive a medium in which we can convey accurate and non-manipulative subjects.

An interesting read but nevertheless this is a topic that can never be translated perfectly across the spectrum of players. Perhaps one day we will receive a medium in which we can convey accurate and non-manipulative subjects.
#17
3 Frags +
BigBadI watched IDDQD troll and make fun of the less skilled bronze players in front of >10,000 viewers on his stream. The criticism was warranted.

How do you not laugh at some of the shit bronze players do?

Mind you, it would have been better if he was just spectating and not just going godmode on pubbers but that shit was hilarious. eg: this sombra's teleport.

https://youtu.be/1I0zZiXbzWg?t=4140

[quote=BigBad]I watched IDDQD troll and make fun of the less skilled bronze players in front of >10,000 viewers on his stream. The criticism was warranted.[/quote]


How do you not laugh at some of the shit bronze players do?

Mind you, it would have been better if he was just spectating and not just going godmode on pubbers but that shit was hilarious. eg: this sombra's teleport.

https://youtu.be/1I0zZiXbzWg?t=4140
#18
-1 Frags +
DanceNumberBigBadI watched IDDQD troll and make fun of the less skilled bronze players in front of >10,000 viewers on his stream. The criticism was warranted.
How do you not laugh at some of the shit bronze players do?

Mind you, it would have been better if he was just spectating and not just going godmode on pubbers but that shit was hilarious. eg: this sombra's teleport.

https://youtu.be/1I0zZiXbzWg?t=4140

in what way was that hilarious? Seeing total beginners just laughed at? Its the same thing as if Messi would go to a highschool now and start playing every game with them AND laugh the whole time while doing it. Do you think people would find that funny? I bet it would cause alot of frustration.
And that sombra example could happen to literally anybody, just cause 1 guy threw his teleport few meters further then he was supposed to, it doesn't necessarily qualify as a rookie mistake, does it.
The criticism he is getting is warranted, I have watched his streams enough to see him get frustrated and complain about his teammates in a not so nice manner.

[quote=DanceNumber][quote=BigBad]I watched IDDQD troll and make fun of the less skilled bronze players in front of >10,000 viewers on his stream. The criticism was warranted.[/quote]


How do you not laugh at some of the shit bronze players do?

Mind you, it would have been better if he was just spectating and not just going godmode on pubbers but that shit was hilarious. eg: this sombra's teleport.

https://youtu.be/1I0zZiXbzWg?t=4140[/quote]

in what way was that hilarious? Seeing total beginners just laughed at? Its the same thing as if Messi would go to a highschool now and start playing every game with them AND laugh the whole time while doing it. Do you think people would find that funny? I bet it would cause alot of frustration.
And that sombra example could happen to literally anybody, just cause 1 guy threw his teleport few meters further then he was supposed to, it doesn't necessarily qualify as a rookie mistake, does it.
The criticism he is getting is warranted, I have watched his streams enough to see him get frustrated and complain about his teammates in a not so nice manner.
#19
-3 Frags +

Don't you know that outrage over things like this is why trump won? In all seriousness though literally half of twitch overwatch streamers have done this, and when universally loved guys like ster did it, no one gave a fuck. But when a guy that people like to jump on because he got dropped from two teams does it, suddenly the lynch mob shows up. Bottom line is didn't fucking do anything. Who cares. We don't even know exactly what led to him being dropped from fnatic. Save the pitch forks for something worthy.

Don't you know that outrage over things like this is why trump won? In all seriousness though literally half of twitch overwatch streamers have done this, and when universally loved guys like ster did it, no one gave a fuck. But when a guy that people like to jump on because he got dropped from two teams does it, suddenly the lynch mob shows up. Bottom line is didn't fucking do anything. Who cares. We don't even know exactly what led to him being dropped from fnatic. Save the pitch forks for something worthy.
#20
1 Frags +

The only time this kind of thing is ok is when YouTubers like MindFuzz do tutorial videos on how to climb the ladder starting at bronze. IDDQD's stream was interesting because he could showcase amazing skill, but he effectively ruined the game for hundreds of bronze players. I'm not mad at him for his past issues with pro teams or anything. I just think it's a shitty thing to do to beginners.

The only time this kind of thing is ok is when YouTubers like MindFuzz do tutorial videos on how to climb the ladder starting at bronze. IDDQD's stream was interesting because he could showcase amazing skill, but he effectively ruined the game for hundreds of bronze players. I'm not mad at him for his past issues with pro teams or anything. I just think it's a shitty thing to do to beginners.
#21
2 Frags +

This post was intended to remove this talk which can be seen on reddit, not to bring it over here as well. The last few posts seem like we're them.

This post was intended to remove this talk which can be seen on reddit, not to bring it over here as well. The last few posts seem like we're them.
#22
3 Frags +

Why didn't iddqd just make an alt to climb the ladder

Why didn't iddqd just make an alt to climb the ladder
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