At least the Mercy meta slightly favors USA, since ryujehong and tobi are so unbelievably good at Ana and Lucio, respectively, that forcing them to not necessarily play those heroes helps.
Then again, Korea could probably run a full-time Symmetra and still not lose a single map.
wouldn't be shocked if this ended up being close. but i do expect it to be relatively one-sided for korea. i just don't feel they have the best possible roster that could be made from that country.
If Team Korea is not fully prepared for playing with and against Mercy, Team USA will have a chance to claim the victory. Both ryujehong and tobi are inconsistent and unreliable in playing Mercy.
Well, USA has a shot to take MAYBE a map if not a round just due to the deathmatchy/frag meta that the game is at right now but ultimately I think the team coordination of Korea will overcome the USA without a bit of luck
I feel like this will be way closer than people think. Not just because of Mercy, but the US squad is pretty good tbh.
So many good matchups in this game too.
Also interested in knowing how Fl0w3r's Pharah is cause JAKE's is pretty good, and Adam's Mercy (assuming he'll be playing her here) is better than Jehong's by a stretch.
Flow3r has one of the best Pharah's in the game, Jake doesn't have a scratch on him. The influence of Adam however could massively help him, but I still don't see it being enough. I think it'll take a lot of ground work from sinatraa for the USA to come out on top, but against Saeb I don't think it'll happen.
Good to know, although their only hitscan is Fl0w3r, since SBB's Mccree was pretty awful to be completely h. I'm guessing they worked out solutions to counter a Pharahmercy, but still.
Zunba-Mano vs CoolMatt-FCTFCTN might very well be the decider for this game actually. Looking forward to it.
I still think the game heavily favours SK. I don't think a simple change in meta is going to change the expected outcome of the match. Only Adam comes close to his opposite number in SK, everyone else is massively outclassed. Unless KyKy has something very special prepared, this should be a 3-0.
Sinatraa comes quite close to saebyolbe
I'd say sinatraa and Jake are probably the two furthest away from their counterparts on the team.
I think you're putting SBB way too high on the rankings. Don't get me wrong, one of the best korean tracers, but Sinatraa is sick too (and god knows how much I hate myself for saying this).
Also CoolMatt and Zunba are pretty neck and neck on Dva. The rest is heavily in Korea's favour besides Adam's Mercy vs Jehong's.
3-1 SK, but a close series overall.
Suppose we all have opinions, but in mine Zunba and Saeb both outclass sinatraa and coolmatt on their main heroes. Sinatraa is probably closer to Saeb than coolmatt is to Zunba though.
I think the only question here is Jake really. I think the rest of the match ups are at least comparable. If Jake shows up with a solid Pharah and some solid Mcree play should they need it, this is very winnable. His Junkrat will certainly be good but if APAC has shown anything, it's that Mcree is pretty good right now and Sinatraa's Mcree, unless he's been grinding behind the scenes, is not that strong.
KyKy has shown he can win against the Koreans before though so I trust him as a coach to have what USA needs.
As long as Rawkus doesn't get picked when they run Sombra. It absolutly blew my mind how a Sombra with EMP can get picked by a Widow, i get it, nerves and all, obviously i haven't played in that environment, but everyone else on the team did fine. In EnvyUs vs Faze, the Contenders Season 1 final, on Anubis, he got picked twice, once on first once on second point, Envy won both of the fights after and took the map, if he played safer they could have taken the map which was pretty close, as for Jake, he is on an OWL team and he can really focus on the game and not really worry about the future.
This is very doable to USA. Neither Jehong or Tobi are great Mercy players and their positioning often gets them killed since they can't peel for themselves as they would normally be able to do.
If she's not toned down before they play, which is very likely, we could see the biggest upset of the tournament. And no matter what the team USA boys say, it would be a massive upset, imo.
In any case it's clear that they can do this!
This game is extremely winnable. JAKE's mechanical skill may not be as impressive as Flow3rs, but he's a talented player who's unquestionably a great leader for them in game. Adam and Rawkus will unquestionably be the stronger support duo this time around, while FCTFCTN and Coolmatt seem to have developed a great duo chemistry that should be enough to take on Miro and Zunba's recently lackluster play. Sinatraa and SBB are around even, but I give the edge to Sinatraa because of his flexibility to his terrifying good Zarya and a solid genji.
USA's got this. It'll be close, but I say USA wins 3-2 or maybe even 3-1
Adam and Rawkus will unquestionably be the stronger support duo this time around
That's going to depend on how strong Mercy is when they play, and even then, I think it levels the playing field more than anything. I wouldn't go as far as making team USA the favorites here since no matter how much they like to posture about their strength, they're the ones that need to prove themselves, not the other way around.
I think everyone is overestimating the USA roster and underestimating South Korea. Even with the mercy changes I'd be very surprised if it wasn't a 3-0 for South Korea.
This Reddit comment made me chuckle:
[–]TYsunshineRunaway to victory — RunAway | Seoul Dynasty 53 points 6 hours ago*
I'd say with the
jehong nerfmercy patch, the other teams have a chance to take a point.
It's either a nerf on Jehong or Tobi, whoever they decide to put on Mercy, unless they go with a no-Mercy comp which could work but they'd be at a big disadvantage against a very good team.
I'll be looking very forward to seeing if team USA can take advantage of this or if team SK are able to compensate and outplay them.
As for results my gut feeling is that SK win 3-1, but honestly I can't really tell since we haven't seen either teams scrim against opponents their counterpart also played against.
Team SK is actually not the SK's best ; thus we could have a chance to crush them.
I believe that US squad is better than EM in Challengers.
It's interesting that although GCB and RA ran mostly mercy during the APAC finals, they did swap off for speedboost sometimes. I think lucio does still have some viability, and if SK can make good use of him, they would have an edge.
I want USA to win, and I think it will be off of KyKy's coaching and preparation. The players are skilled enough, but whether or not they can take advantage of the "jehong nerf" will be the deciding factor.
US pharmercy should be better than SK's, if Sinatraa pulls his weight (which he probably will). I think the boys in red, white, and blue take control and assault, and SK take escort and hybrid. If they play double control like they did in contenders finals, USA wins.
Predict: 3-2 USA.
Really wish it will going to be even match as hyped everyone is. Seriously counted for few weeks just to watch OWWC!
Fans: Yay, with the new Mercy buffs the USA may stand a chance of beating South Korea
Blizzard: Ana damage per shot 60 -> 70
Fans: No please! What are you doing?
Blizzard: Mercy cast time for rez: 1.75 seconds
Blizzard: Mercy can be stunted to interup rez
Fans: Stop, she's already dead
I'm annoyed with how undersold some players on the US team are on this forum.. talking about Flow3r like an immortal god when we have seen him ghost in big games. I don't think anyone would disagree with SK being a better squad, my point is I think it's insane to think they are untouchable when they have to travel to a LAN in the US against a USA team that is not mechanically far behind, has proven great synergy and chemistry and has had so much time to prepare for one match on a new meta not to mention. South Korea will win but anyone who thinks a US upset is impossible is drinking koolaid imo
People thinking USA can beat korea LuL
if there's anyone in the tournament that would give a team the best chance of beating or at LEAST putting up a fight with SK, it would be kyky. if team USA didn't have him, i wouldn't be so positive. i'm not saying it'll be a USA upset, but i have faith that this won't be an EZ 3-0.
TBH, I can’t understand why people are overrating USA.
Yes, they are good compared to other westerners, but they have to face to SK.
Do you guys remember APEX S2, S3, or IEM?
The best western team was always destroyed by KR tier 1.5 or tier 2 team.
Even in the mercy meta, I’m sure that SK will absolutely destroy USA.
Rig their pc to go at 30fps
Let's not do that because team USA will get shit on for a lifetime if they actually loose then :D
More than anything else, I'm hyped to see nanohana on LAN after so long. Nano/Saebye is going to be an insane DPS combo with ryu and tobi supporting them. Haven't been this excited to watch OW in awhile.
South Korea 3-1 USA
How is that bold, it's what a lot of people think
i personally don't think SK's dps duo is the best that korea has to offer, and i still don't like mano over miro. i'll say SK 3-2. i feel they should win through coordinated teamplay, but i think it could be a 3-0 with a slightly different roster.
GL ameribros. C U in grand finals B)
Also, the production quality is superb.
This could easily be the highest viewer count of the entire OWWC, with huge support for both teams. It might even get more than the final if USA don't make it
the US has no chance...
HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT HUH
Y'ALL THINK WE'RE JUST GOING DOWN EZ
NOPE WE'RE SCARY GOOD
even blind person sees that this shit is rigged.
probably they told korea to take it slowly on em.
I knew it. Lunatic-Hai is half of this team. This roster is not their best. They can be beat
Ok, this is interesting now. This is the first time SK has dropped a map in this WC. I don't think they lost a map in the 2016 OWWC as well. It seems we got a good match ahead.
Everyone who said USA is going down 3-0 needs to shut their mouth right now and support the boys
If they didn’t troll in the first game, it would have been.
They weren't trolling. Swallow ur pride and admit u were wrong.
Ur also salty cuz U.K. Got destroyed
Hey tilted would u shut ur mouth?
USA destroyed even they r much prepared LUL
Sinatraa 150$ tracer(I think this is overestimared too)
Sniaatra da god
i thought adam is the problem after the qualifiers but now that its a mercy meta hes actually the guy carrying them super hard :D
Well shit. USA threw at the end of that map, I thought they were gonna go up 2-0 fur sure...
Seems like US is better at current meta, but Korea’s better at the game overall.
alright, boom, Ana have a bullets hah, she needs to reload a rifle, you get me? she can't just fly around holding down left click and skkrrrrraa, u don-kno
This Mercy meta makes Korea so weak, is like it was on purpose to make it a fair World Cup. Jeff Illuminati confirmed
i dunno what to say but seemed like korea didnt try much in the first map.
Nice first round speed run. Tobi died at least 3 times, huge difference in how Adam is supporting his team and enabling them.
USA's showing SK how to play this meta.
someone investigate this, korea is basically not moving standing still doing nothing but stupid moves on defens
What happened to US at the end of Eichenwalde? Sure, SK had that textbook final attack that perfectly utilized their support ultimates, but the way USA got shut down at the end of their attack doesn't make any sense to me.
Ok good game. Flower can aim. US cannot. Oh well.
Edit: I got tilted, sorry
seems like Korea doesn't even try the first half of the maps haha.
like they were literally not doing anything on defense.
despite the horrible mercy meta, that match is awesome. great overwatch!
Jake is playing amazing but had at least three ults where he died almost instantly.
WHY WAS THIS MATCH I ROUND ONE
I found the mercy meta to be annoying before, but since the meta is so volatile, it allows for so many different types of team compositions, pushes, and plays. Truly highlighting brain work over individual talent.
Also, the interactive branding (!tmobilemvp voting in Twitch) is a really neat idea, I wonder how else esports will innovate sports advertising.
So the winner of this map wins the match?
edit: ...Interesting. So what happens if US wins this? It goes to a best of 7 then?
After having watched the first 3 maps this is probably the best overwatch map I've seen.Unfortunately this is also the weirdest game I've ever seen and looks staged af(weird/bad positioning at times, weird initiatations, weird target priority e.g. Flow3r on widow on second point on hanamura, team fights going one way but in the last minute the winning team gets wiped counter to the flow of the fight[happened a lot of times], weird hero choices by the Koreans although that might be normal for Korea I guess)
If it was staged it would be some next level conspiracy...since it's just the OWWC. I think SK is just using the heroes and strats they practiced with some flavour added to it.
They have the skill to do it and they look like they're having fun so have at it!
These two teams were so evenly matched up till hanamura going back and forth and having really close fights.But on the last two maps Korea stomped the USA in like 20 mins in total.There are 3 possibilities:1) it was staged to make it look closer than it should/could have been(increase NA interest in esports for OWL) 2) Korea was just effing around for the first 3 maps 3) USA choked harder than any other team I've ever seen/fell apart
If you think that was a conspiracy-level choke then I really don't think you've watched much OW. It was a very normal-level tilt. Happens almost all the time in tourneys. You lose or tie a game you thought you won, then everything starts getting a lot harder. Both teams were clearly trying and both teams were playing great up until the tilting point, when the USA started to get sloppy.
But seriously, it happens all the time. I wonder what tournaments you have been watching that don't go this way.
SK stomped US in Gibraltar and Oasis because of one man - Fl0w3r. Jake was saying how SK wasn't as adaptable as US, well clearly he and his crew couldn't adapt to Fl0w3r's Widow and Pharah on Gibraltar and Oasis.
Add in the fact that US was stupid enough to swap Adam, one of the if not the best NA Mercy to Lucio and let Rawkus, an insane Zen take over Mercy duties who then proceeded to get picked off first in every team fight in Oasis.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that had this feeling south Korea made so many mistakes that they normally would never do. like mano just jumping in without any backup or any heal.
Wouldn't shock me if blizzard told them to take it easy on them the first maps and maybe let them win maps.
Because they just switched from 0 to 100 every time they took over a point they rolled over them like a plow
There is so much going on in the game between keeping track of abilities, ultimates and mercy res'ing people early or mid team fight, knowing when the best time to engage, rotating defensive and attacking positions and doing all that working as a team. Also there wasn't much lucio play the help with engages and disengages. people are bound to make mistakes.
The main question is, how much of this match's high level of competitiveness is due to the current Mercy patch and would it be as high octane if it was PTR Mercy?
I'd like to believe so because holly shit, but it's hard to tell.
jeff kaplan : pls dont trash our national team completely let them atleast win mayb 1 -2 maps
koreans : ok dude no problem
One team was just better. way better
Right, because a super-tight grind for the majority of the series constitutes a slaughter.
USA looked great. SK looked a bit better (but probably worse than they would have looked in a less merciful meta).
It's too bad we had to play them round 1. Korea's road to the cup only gets easier from here.
The difference between Fl0w3r and Jake really showed in the last two maps. Sad to say that Jake's Pharah didn't make an impact on Oasis.
Kudos to Fl0w3r for carrying in the game, Coolmatt69 for consistently deleting Tobi with D.va, Adam being the better Mercy imo and Rawkus just clutching some QCQ and long distance kills with Zen. (He saved FCTFCTN's Orisa on Nepal from a flanking Saebyolbe and FCTFCTN didn't even noticed. That was really funny.)
edit: Messed up some names.
edit2: This is the clip: https://clips.twitch.tv/TentativeSpoopySandstormTriHard
After Fl0w3rs tire, I think he called to the team that FCTFCTN was low and Saeb came for the kill.
The Finals will be a quick 4-0
I do hope it's a tight match against France, but as KyKy said: This was one of best chances US or any other team had to beat SK. Now that SK advanced to the semis, they are able to study France, Sweden and Canada matches. They are going to be prepare for them tomorrow. So it's going to be hard.
Sinatraa did nothing, completely overrated, outclassed by SBB everytime. but JAKE and support were really good
USA team's coordination was much better, but physical and aim was outclassed, SK is a SK.
If sinatraa is worth $150,000 then Saeb is at the very least $1,000,000 and Flow3r $2,000,000. Huge credit to FCT and Matt though, as they were outstanding, but in the end SK DPS just massively outclassed the USA's. Great series nevertheless.
Sucks that this was the quarterfinals. Rest of the tournament will be beyond boring.
Ggs, respect to both teams. Still proud of my USA boys, they put on quite the show.
France will probably put up a better fight against South Korea than the USA did.
Edit: Downvoted despite being right FeelsBadMan
I'll take that bet.
You might be right, its been more than a year but Rogue did beat LH at finals, so no mental complexity there for France.
Not sure what you mean, but as you said it was a year ago, with a completely different roster, also against a completely different roster.
This will be extremely difficult for France since Nico is going to get absolutely focused down as the weak link. Soon is probably going to be kept in check by SBB, much like Sinatraa was for good parts of their match.
I don't see France fairing better than USA, this match was as close as anyone's going to get to defeating SK unless Sweden can also pull off some heroics, imo.
Rogue are trash, from here South Korea will just roll their way to World Cup. Rogue was destroyed when they went to Korea by the players making up the SK team. Might as well just give them the trophy already
One thing is absolutely clear after this game...Adam is the best Mercy player in the world. HANDS DOWN. No question.
Not sure about the world, but he's the best in the west and for sure top 5 or maybe even top 3 world.
Yes. Did you not see how the USA stayed in team fights mostly because of Adam's mercy? Tobi on the other hand kept getting picked off early in team fights, and in this meta, the team with the better mercy pretty much wins most of team fights. That's one of the reasons why US kept it close. Even with mr 150k sinatraa being a no show that entire matchup the US almost won because of the Junkrat mercy meta
LUL Overlord SK has God tier Mercy main too(edit:of course not jehong and tobi, it means SK player like closer or gambler)
Blizzard purposely using Mercy meta to throw SK off?
Blizzard ruining the game by replacing Lucio with Mercy?
Boop kills < res?
Isn't the point of game to have fun? how is res fun over boop? how is dragging the fight longer fun?