http://www.espn.com/esports/story/_/id/20564135/nrg-signs-17-year-old-overwatch-pro-sinatraa-150k
edit:thanks to twitch chat for bringing this to my attention, but please still upvote me for dem stars ;3
edit 2:who ever makes this into a front page article I would like to request a pun centered around the word "blue" included since I posted first to over.gg
It says in the article his price jumped up because NRG and C9 entered a bidding war. Seoul was likely uncontested in signing LH, so they will probably make less than Sinatraa does. I can't imagine EnVy's roster signing with someone else and risk being split apart, but another team might try to begin a bidding war for their players so there's a chance they could hit that price. As for LW Blue, I have no idea, but it sounds like that there was little competition in that signing either, so it's probably less than Sinatraa's contract, too.
I'm gonna keep believing the best players in the world like Miro and Taimou and countless other pros who praise Seagull very highly, than people who talk him down with no evidence or reason other than he's popular. He's proven himself many times but I guess it'll never be enough for some people. Even ignoring his talent, Seagull deserves to be in OWL more than anyone considering everything he's done for OW.
He's a lot better than the self proclaimed "tier 1" players who are advertising themselves on twitter, and if they think they've got a shot then he'll have no problem. Teams will probably just pick him up for his marketing value, as with a 12 man roster they know that he won't need to be on the starting roster, but he'd be a more than useful player if he's required.
People say Seagull is trash simply because he's a big streamer, and in most people's minds, big streamer=not good.
He's been praised by a massive amount of pros, has an almost unparalleled understanding of the game, plus he's mechanically skilled on a massive amount of heroes. Not only he is an asset to any team for his pure skill, but also his marketability. (Looking at you, Bad Pachirami)
I once had a conversation with the owner of NG Red, and while he's not respected among the community, he did say one very interesting thing to me, which was that Seagull might be more valuable as a person than any other full team in overwatch. Blizzard needs him in OWL.
I think most people just don't buy into the hype, personally from what I saw of him back when he played in NRG he was good indeed but because he was popular people acted like he was gods gift to OW yet it's not like he went ape shit and ripped teams to shreds all the time did he. There's players out there that did more in bigger games more consistently that still don't get rated as high as Seagull for some reason, even after doing fuck all for so long people still act like he's one of the best which blows my mind.
I'll be honest, I don't like the way he just left "pro OW" because he felt he was too good for the smaller tournaments, it was an absolute dick move in my eyes to ditch your team like that to become a streamer, he basically wanted to make money over be successful with his team and for that reason I hope he doesn't get into the OWL.
Fact he's valuable shouldn't matter, should teams go out and bring in some big time you tubers as well because they are even more valuable? I have no idea who the biggest OW you tuber is but throw him on Envyus because he's valuable, nah fuck that.
It's not very often you read about players being so highly rated after doing nothing for over a year or something, but I'm all for being proven wrong so let's see Seagull get into the OWL and show everyone the hype is real and not some fanboy shit.
dont try to convince people on over.gg that seagull isnt THE GOD OF OVERWATCH
just look at earlier comment
He's been praised by a massive amount of pros, has an almost unparalleled understanding of the game, plus he's mechanically skilled on a massive amount of heroes. Not only he is an asset to any team for his pure skill, but also his marketability.
and i honestly looked for a proof of other pros praising him and i havent found any
last time i wrote seagull is not the best genji in the west i got downvoted to hell and people just kept writing how GODLY SEAGULLS EVERY HERO IS
conclussion i avoid seagulls topic on over.gg
edit get downvoted to hell for saying something negative about seagull on over.gg (same fate awaits me)
I wouldn't worry about getting downvoted, this forum is incredibly petty for downvoting stuff they don't agree with and upvoting pointless spam or some retarded MEME, if someone made a post saying Seagull was life it would have 8 upvotes so it's pathetic really, either agree with the fanboys or get downvotes eh.
I've got 4 downfrags for saying sinatraa isn't a top 10 world DPS player (which he isn't), so I agree with you on that part. However, I think the point that I've made in the past and people have made here is that yes he is a popular streamer, but he's also a good player. You don't receive the praise that he's had from some of the best players in OW by just being a typical streamer. He was always the carry on NRG even during there awful period at the back end of last year. If you're basing him off other players he's played with, he out shined the likes of Gods and Clockwork who've both kept themselves relevant in the NA pro scene. If they're good enough to do it, then why isn't he?
Yes he's not been in the pro scene for half a year, but you don't lose the ability you once had just because you only play ranked, otherwise how would new pros enter the competitive overwatch scene? There are undoubtedly better players out there in the OW scene, but there aren't many who are on a completely different level to him. If you're looking at it from a business perspective, you're going to select the most popular player out of a list of similarly skilled OW pro players. That's why he'll be in the league.
You didn't get downvoted for having said he is not a top #10 world DPS (which is by the way completly stupid because how did you currently define a worldclass DPS ? A top Tracer, a top Genji, a top Genji/Tracer, a top McCree, a top Junkrat ?) but for having be completly negative for free.
And btw maybe NRG put that much money because he is American and having a top world class American DPS is better than having a Korean one, for a American team. Maybe.
You have absolutely 0 legs to stand on to call anyone stupid by the way, your opinion can very well be expressed without added jab.
Almost feels like this website is going to end up needing mods just to police the people that get offended by comments on the internet and that feel the need to retaliate.
How is it stupid to say a player who's never competed in the best region in the world or against the best players in the world isn't a top 10 DPS player? I could name 10 Korean DPS players who I'd consider better than him, never mind western players. Top 10 in the West? Absolutely. A long way from being top 10 in the world though. My point was that I thought it was extreme to be spending that much money on one player. With OWL being brand new, I'd expect that kind of money to be gained only by the very best players in the game. If NRG has a war chest to spend on players though, then maybe it's not a problem after all.
Lol, I said it is stupid to make a rank of DPS player. DPS are currently Tracer, Genji, Soldier, Doomfist and sometimes Pharah.
My point is: what is a top #10 player ? The best Tracer, the best Genji ? The best Genji+Tracer ? The best all of those ?
You can't define something as "the best #10 DPS player in the world".
Second, you don't really know how bussiness is working... They bought an American top DPS player. They probably don't want a #1 DPS player, but a top American DPS player. A star if you prefer.
There's players out there that did more in bigger games more consistently that still don't get rated as high as Seagull for some reason, even after doing fuck all for so long people still act like he's one of the best which blows my mind.
You're gonna blame the guy for being likeable and good at what he does ? Fact of the matter is, these other pros you talk of didn't do a tenth of the shit he did for this game, and this goes back to the early closed beta days. The guy built his community, a very big one, and you're gonna hate on him because this community supports him ?
people acted like he was gods gift to OW
Are you saying that you don't like the guy because of how people perceive him ? You're reaching my doggie.
He felt he was too good for the smaller tournaments, it was an absolute dick move in my eyes to ditch your team like that to become a streamer.
Forgive my manners, but where in the fuck exactly did he ever say that he was too good for small tournaments ? Please stop spreading false claims based over you not liking him or the way he's handling his career. And as far as everybody knows, there hasn't been bad blood between him and his ex-teammates at all over this.
Fact he's valuable shouldn't matter, should teams go out and bring in some big time you tubers as well because they are even more valuable?
I'm gonna start by saying forget opening a business. Second, you're comparing Seagull to big youtubers, that's a top kekeroni.
I have no idea who the biggest OW you tuber is but throw him on Envyus because he's valuable, nah fuck that.
Again, thonker.
Finally, there's no actual pro players' rating. Whatever you're thinking is based off of what random people say on the internet.
EDIT: completely fucked up formating, any way I could delete the whole post I replied to in favour of the small parts ?
Idk how anybody can say Seagull doesn't have the chops for OWL. The guy took a break from professional play but he's still scrimming and practicing.
And I'm gonna join the train, people saying he doesn't have what it takes to be in it (or only at his peak), are obviously biased for a reason or another. Not white knighting here, but have you ever heard anybody relevant in the professional community say he is massively overrated ?
Plus, he said it in his stream once, and I'm paraphrasing here (don't have the heart to go watch hours of VODs, so take my word for it, or don't), that people, especially pros, shouldn't expect anything too big from the first months of Overwatch, and that things will get serious once the big league will be announced. The League is here, and Seagull is back to his inconsistent streams that he had once old LG got signed by NRG. Could only mean one thing. The bird is practicing hard.
My only hope is that he gets in a good team and does well in OWL.
And I won't talk about the marketing side of Seagull, his exposure, the number of people he brought into Overwatch, the number of people he taught things about Overwatch, it seems fairly obvious to me.
He has the skill, he has the drive, he has the will to thrive.
Yes, I'm applying to be his campaign manager. Sue me.
How can people say he DOES have the chops for OWL when he hasn't played competitive OW for so long, you tell me that, scrimming and practising doesn't mean shit mate you trying to tell me Rogue and Renegades/Immortal ain't doing all that yet still look sketchy.
I can easily flip that and say people that say he does have what it takes to be in it are biased for a reason or another, fact is you base him being ready on his streams yet by that logic what's that widowmakers name, Kephri? I've watched him before and he looks great on his stream does that mean he's ready for OWL?
I'm not quite sure how he managed to bring people INTO OW, surely only people that knew OW would watch him? I don't know, I find this is another exaggerated Seagull hype thing that people seem to feel he's single handedly keeping OW alive or some shit, calm the fuck down man he's a good pro who hasn't done anything on the pro scene for a while, there's far better players out there doing it week in week out that nobody mentions? come on.
This guy is so hyped I'm dying to see him in the OWL owning the best teams in the world because hey man he looks shit hot on his streams that can only mean he's the best in the world. I'm almost certain there's some big juicy OW you tubers out there that have as much marketability as Seagull so based on this logic we will see them in the OWL alongside him.
Doesn't that Tyler1 guy have a massive following on Twitch as well? guess he will team up with Seagull.
The difference between you and I is I'm talking about what I think, not about what PEOPLE say, cause that's all you seem to care about. What's it to you if they fucking say Seagull is a god or a garbage can ? Make your own mind and stop reacting, you'll gain more credibility.
Scrimming and practicing doesn't mean shit ?! Dude you're heated, ponder before typing. Literally nonsense.
Your opinion and mine on pro players' level is irrelevant. Hence me repeating my question, have you ever heard anybody relevant in the professional community say he is massively overrated ?
And I never said he's ready for OWL, I said he's practicing. Kephrii has played this game professionally for a couple of games in a Liquid try out. So yes, there is a big difference between a guy playing for months and a guy playing for a couple of hours. If that ain't clear to you, I don't know what is.
Well maybe if you watched his streams you'd notice how people actually bought the game after watching for a while.
surely only people that knew OW would watch him?
Are you actually serious ? Knowing OW and buying OW are different things ??
people seem to feel he's single handedly keeping OW alive or some shit
Again with the people huh. And don't know about that single-handedly you put there.
Rest of your post got answered on my previous one.
Don't really enjoy long conversations like these. I guess I like the guy and you don't. Just don't say shit like 'he feels he's too good' cause that's a bunch of garbage. That is all.
I'm not blaming him for being likeable, hell even I like the guy all I'm saying is I don't get why people still rate the guy so high, I may have selective memory but when he was active I still couldn't remember him being THAT good, who honestly cares what he did for this game? we don't judge players success on what they did for the game we judge them on what they did IN the game, if he never wins a tournament in his life will he still be regarded as gods gift to OW just because he makes videos? bullshit.
I'm pretty sure Seagull left because there's not enough big tournaments in OW and he didn't want to practise hard for smaller tournaments? I may be wrong but to me that comes across as someone who is too big for the smaller tournaments.
"Finally, there's no actual pro players' rating. Whatever you're thinking is based off of what random people say on the internet."
So what is yours based on, the fact somehow somewhere all these big pros are saying Seagull is the dogs' bollocks? show me some tweets where big pros are coming out and rating Seagull as highly as the fanboys and I'll rest my case. I still don't rate Seagull regardless of how popular he is and if everyone else does then that's fine, we will see when OWL kicks off just how godly this guy is.
watch from 8:45 to see GOD SEAGULL ;) (irony)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlKcdXcJ4CM&ab_channel=OfficialOverwatchHighlights
4 shots 2 hits and one after a hook (pretty much impossible to miss)
"The difference between you and I is I'm talking about what I think, not about what PEOPLE say, cause that's all you seem to care about. What's it to you if they fucking say Seagull is a god or a garbage can ? Make your own mind and stop reacting, you'll gain more credibility."
So you're saying Seagull IS good enough for OWL because that's what you think, based on what? I already told you I don't rate Seagull regardless of what people say so what you smoking? I have made my mind up and it's been the same for a year so again, what you smoking?
"Scrimming and practicing doesn't mean shit ?! Dude you're heated, ponder before typing. Literally nonsense."
It doesn't mean you're amazing because you've been scrimming, do you not think Renegades and Immortals have been doing all that yet are dog shit, eUnited? you don't base how good someone is because of scrimming you base how good they are in matches that matter, if that's nonsense then whatever.
"And I never said he's ready for OWL, I said he's practicing. Kephrii has played this game professionally for a couple of games in a Liquid try out. So yes, there is a big difference between a guy playing for months and a guy playing for a couple of hours. If that ain't clear to you, I don't know what is."
"Idk how anybody can say Seagull doesn't have the chops for OWL. The guy took a break from professional play but he's still scrimming and practicing.
And I'm gonna join the train, people saying he doesn't have what it takes to be in it (or only at his peak), are obviously biased for a reason or another."
"Don't really enjoy long conversations like these. I guess I like the guy and you don't. Just don't say shit like 'he feels he's too good' cause that's a bunch of garbage. That is all."
Ditto, I like the guy myself just don't rate him as high as everyone seems to think based on his streams and the fact he's scrimming, I can scrim does that make me good? no point talking shit about a guy that has done literally nothing for so long, wait till he turns up in OWL and performs against the best then we can come back and see who was right or wrong until then it's all about opinions, there's no proof that Seagull is or isn't good enough for OWL so don't let your fanboy shit get in the way.
To cut a long story short, I'm hating on people saying Seagull is basically a god based on what he did a year ago or does on stream not hating on the guy personally, that's my opinion if you disagree fair play, as I said before we will see when OWL hits.
Last reply cause this is becoming pointless.
do you not think Renegades and Immortals have been doing all that yet are dog shit, eUnited?
How about enVision, Misfits, GO, Gigantti, FaZe ? Goes both ways.
I'll end it with this:
I can scrim does that make me good?
If you can scrim with and against the people he does, then yeah you're fucking good.
And you think this is about being right or wrong, you're lost man. I don't care if he gets destroyed in OWL, or worse, if he doesn't get in. You think the people you so love bringing up will break down in tears and boycott the game until he gets unanimously rated best player ? Fuck outta here.
No one here said he was a god. You like a player, you praise a player. Doesn't make your/my opinion relevant to anybody but you/me. Stop acting like whatever overgg/reddit/twitch says is some holy sacred shit.
Peace.
If you don't remember him being THAT good, then you memory is selective. He wasn't as consistent as others star players, but whenever the team would fall apart, the only one making plays was Seagull (Gods to an extent, but Gods was the epitome of inconsistency back then, and God knows how much I love Gods).
And again, what's it to you if the people rate him a 7/6 or a -5 ? I don't get it. 'People said' seems to be your way out.
Who cares what he did for the game ? Really ? Let's see, Blizzard ? The guy pulls more viewers than their tournaments. The only times their stream wasn't #1 on Twitch was when Seagull was streaming at the same time.
Exposure means money. Money is business. Blizzard makes business.
Blizzard got a super rare case of an extremely popular professional player. As BigDad said : Ergo, Seagull will be in OWL.
Besides a monthly in November 2016, Surefour hasn't won anything in this game, are you gonna tell he doesn't deserve to be in OWL just because he hasn't won anything ?
You keep saying this:
I'm pretty sure Seagull left because there's not enough big tournaments in OW and he didn't want to practise hard for smaller tournaments? I may be wrong but to me that comes across as someone who is too big for the smaller tournaments.
Again, how are you pretty sure ? The reason of him stepping down from the roster has never been disclosed by him. There's a difference between assumption and being pretty sure.
Lastly, i never rated him. You're starting to answer me with questions. In my eyes, he's great and he has the potential to be at the top alongside the best players in this game.
And yes, I am a fanboy. Anybody who appreciates Seagull is a fanboy, anybody who dislikes him is a mongbean. What a planet!
Here is Miro on Seagull at 2:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmGiI6AXfT4
And I've heard Surefour and Taimou talk about Seagull as well. But good luck finding the clips...
All this to say, look shit up before talking nonsense.
Thinking seagull isn't good enough for OWL is simply a travesty in your own mind. You obviously (both you Robokun and Remiska, plus all other haters) either haven't been watching pro OW long enough, haven't watched enough of his streams, or haven't watched videos that have Miro and Taimou praising seagull for his immense skill.
Why did he get people into OW? It's because of his immense likability and how he understands the game on an incredibly deep level. He was one of the original best projectile players in the West, and despite being rusty, he's expanded his hero pool massively and it wouldn't take long for him to reach the top again. You can keep doubting Seagull all you want, he's going to be in OWL, and he's going to succeed.
If this bothers you so much, I'll reiterate what Involv3r said.... just fuck off and keep it to yourself. If you hate getting downfragged, then stop trash talking most people's favorite player that you truly have no right to say is a bad player.
You're just foul in the way you talk lmao. I am a fanboy, and I have no regrets saying that. I am a seagull fanboy and I want the very best for him. He brought me into overwatch and I've always loved him.
The reason I say you have no right to say he's bad is because you're basing your information purely in your beliefs and opinions. The truth of the matter is, if you look at his past games, Seagull is a very talented player. If you watch his streams, he's a talented player. Unless you have concrete evidence that "Seagull is bad" then you're in no position to say so, mate.
None of you are going to convince the other one way or another. Stop arguing, go outside enjoy the day, play some Overwatch (the reason we're all here as fans), have a beer, whatever, just stop arguing because it's totally pointless.
You believe what you believe and that's all there is to it, and there's nothing wrong with having an opinion, just try not to be dicks about it.
According to him he will be in but couldn't say with who. I took it with a grain of salt because I don't know if it means he's just confident about getting in or if he already has an offer he can't divulge but I guess it's something one way or another.
For what it's worth I do think he has the skills to be in OWL and his particular hero pool is one that can serve many teams. It remains to be seen if he can be a core part of a roster since he hasn't been in the pro scene for so long but having him on board a team in some capacity is probably more beneficial than not having him at all given his popularity.
I think both sides are the argument are valid mostly because of his most recent results, which aren't recent at all, and the fact that we just haven't seen him in that type of setting for so long. In the end actions speak louder than words so true judgement, aka anything more than speculation, should be reserved for when we do see him on the battlefield of Overwatch.
http://i.imgur.com/lvw1Hlp.gif (put seagull instead of vader and you have good representation of a lot of comments here)
In my opinion he has enough skill to be in the league but that's largely unimportant, as is every other person's opinion in this thread.
He either will or won't be and I'm not sure why so many people are taking this to heart. Whether it's the Seagull fanboys that swear he's the best thing ever, or the haters that think he's complete shit and nothing but a streamer. Everyone in between is labeled on one side or the other regardless of how their comments are formulated. The one you just now posted is a nice example of it.
It's not hard to have an opinion and to disagree with someone else without being offended by the fact that they don't share the same views as you. I don't understand the level of difficulty so many people have with this. The stupidity of some of the counter arguments from either directions is mind blowing since all of them are just opinions.
Respect is a thing, even when online.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZL1lv5Ximc
Has Stylosa been snooping around on this post or something. Literally mentions everything people have been arguing over.
I mean, I know they said NRG was stacked and beating the top NA teams in scrims consistently. Never read or heard the words super star roster used, it might've slipped by me though.
But to get back to the point, I think there are only 2 supports in the world that are considered super stars as of today, Tobi and Jehong.
Also, super star roster doesn't necessarily mean every player is a super star, so it's up to interpretation really.
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