Scheduled
8:20 PM EDT
Sunday, August 13th
Event
World Cup 2017 Santa Monica Group Stage: Playoffs
Map 1
Hollywood
Map 2
Nepal
Map 3
Horizon Lunar Colony
Map 4
N/A
Map 5
N/A
View:
1
Frags
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So which qualifier plays Canada at blizzcon and which qualifier may as well not show up?

3
Frags
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The winner of G1 vs H2 plays SK and G2 vs H1 plays Canada.

For the team Canada match up we'd be looking at USA, UK, Brazil or Taiwan in order of which I think is most likely. I didn't include the other group H teams before I don't think any of them can beat team UK.

2
Frags
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very ez 4 uk tbh

5
Frags
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This will be closer than the USA vs Taiwan match. Rooting for UK but I think Taiwan might just edge them out.

3
Frags
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I think most importantly we'll get to see how good UK are. Their group ended up being pretty easy in the end so this will be a good measure of skill. I believe in the UK roster to take this but drop a map.

0
Frags
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My bias is towards the UK as I'd like them to win but I think it's hard to say. They did look stronger in their matches but they also didn't have to face a team of USA's caliber.

I'll throw in a 3-2 UK win but honestly I have no clue, could go either way.

1
Frags
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U meta too strong UK 3-1

9
Frags
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You know how every zen's nightmare is getting farmed by tracers. Well, every tracer's nightmare is Boombox.

2
Frags
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Im very suprised neither Zp or hex said UK just Kruised through Hollywood attack phase

3
Frags
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UK's Hollywood attack seems to make their scrims results against KR teams make sense. They seem to be very weak against a strong aggressive dive, and it's probably why they were getting crushed by the top KR teams as they mentioned.

#11
hugo
2
Frags
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Great zoning Winston ult from UK to knock Chinese Taipei off the payload.

2
Frags
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Impressive ult usage from UK so far

1
Frags
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It's becoming clear that I've been seriously underestimating Team UK. Taiwan gave USA a good match and now UK is rolling over them.

1
Frags
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Hex with the Game of Thrones reference.

4
Frags
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Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, are given a chance to climb. They refuse, they cling to the realm or the gods or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

-Petyr Baelish

7
Frags
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Let's talk for real though. You can say I'm overreacting, but Flash Wolves are officially the most overrated team of 2017. Yes, they dominated the pacific region, but their only true competition was Blank. While obviously they had a lot of pressure having to perform on the big stage in the US, I expected them to bring a lot more to the table. Not the most impressive mechanical play (bar Baconjack), horrible ultimate economy, and most of all, a C9.

4
Frags
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I think you may have missed a few key things in how the matches against USA and UK went.

  1. As I mentioned they admitted getting absolutely dumpstered by KR teams so I'm not sure if you were expecting KR like performances from them

  2. Both of their resounding losses were to very aggressive dives which would coincide with what the KR teams would have thrown at them.

  3. I think it's less about them being overrated and both the USA and UK teams being underrated for not being full teams.

  4. The OPC has a play style that fits them, just like APEX is more friendly to KR teams, and I assume that the western play style is something they just weren't prepared for.

FW is an excellent team in their region, and they get to take everything they learned here back with them. Something most OWC teams can't do. They had obvious weaknesses that never got exposed back home and this will only make them a better team if they were to play these teams again.

It's easy to build up a team that's been dominating in a virtual vacuum but these results make a lot of sense and after seeing the USA match I wasn't surprised at all that they fell to a similarly built team.

So, overrated? Yeah probably, but if you've followed all of their matches your expectations should have been lowered accordingly.

10
Frags
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I don't always slow clap alone in my room, but when I do Michael Adams and Seb Barton are on my screen

3
Frags
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Lads on tour just got an extension.

2
Frags
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For real though, as good as I thought they were going into it, they massively exceeded my expectations. They've not been challenged once by any team on any map in any game that they've played. I'd have them as one of the favourites at Blizzcon.

-3
Frags
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So OCE is a shitty region afterall.

2
Frags
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Chances are they'd still beat most NA/EU teams other than eUnited and our NA tier 1 squads. So probably not as shitty as you'd think.

0
Frags
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I doubt it. They lost to 2 teams made up of players from many teams, some of these players' teams didn't even qualify for contender season 1. Take LGE for example, I think LGE is actually stronger than team USA due to far superior coordination.

These are huge losses for a full roster pro team who have been scriming together for a very long time with full staff support.

4
Frags
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I'd argue that LGE is weaker than Team USA because LGE has a very difficult time coordinating an effective dive. So much so that they've fallen relatively behind compared to a number of tier 2 teams.

A lot of the current full NA teams don't have the luxury of a top tier Tracer the level of Sinatraa and a Flexible DPS who also happens to be a tactical genius in the way he sees the game.

Their losses were similar enough that I see them as having the same weakness Meta Athena had in Season 2 when they had their amazing run. A gaping weakness to aggressive dive, a play style you don't see that much of in the OPC. BLANK used to run tanks and had to adjust but their dive is no where near what USA and UK threw at them today. Scrimming and coaching won't do much to help you if you run into a comp or play style that you're haven't had a chance to scrim against consistently and at that level of proficiency.

You're correct, these are huge losses but they get to bring those losses back with them and learn from them and I think that's good for them in the long run. It's a good wake up call for sure.

2
Frags
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I agree with KuroiRyuu here, while they got rolled and it looks really bad, this happens a lot to teams that come to a new region regardless of meta. Not sure rogue is a good example cos they did really well in scrims but eunited and LK both went to korea and said they got destroyed and every other european team says that since they came back they've improved a huge amount. Yeah FW got rolled but they'll be stronger than ever given the exposure through scrims and these matches.

#30
Tomu
2
Frags
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I think this is a serious underestimation of the value of playing together as a team over an extended time period. These world cup teams are essentially a mix thrown together a couple months in advance. Sure they can be some of the best players in their respective regions but they still need to get team cohesion and understand how everybody plays and that should take a long time.

Flash wolves has been around for quite a while and they looked fairly dominant when they've played before but this world cup they just don't stack up at all. They should have the biggest advantage of all this full teams that were signed up. Rogue has been looking shaky prior to the event, FW beat Blank, LUL Brazil. And if you are to believe the hype from the OCE scene Flash wolves are numba 1.

But this is an awful showing from them. Maybe it just wasn't their day, maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe you could consider a bunch of different reasons but at the end of the day they played and got lackluster results.

Secondly comparing team USA or team UK to top NA/EU teams shouldn't be a factor. Top EU and NA teams have mixed nationalities for the most part so you don't get to witness that at this world cup. The world cup teams shouldn't be stronger than their regions top teams otherwise they should realise they should already be in a team and have been wasting all their time scrimming and competing with current teams.

Could flash wolves compete with NA/EU Tier 1 teams? Maybe. Could they beat tier 1 teams based solely on their performance against US and UK? Not a chance in a million years.

People are trying to have this idea that every region is as good as the other but frankly it's just not true. Korea seems to be a step ahead of everybody with the number of tier 1 teams they have and then there's usually a pretty even split between EU and NA depending on patch and which one has the bright idea for changing the meta (NA with triple tanks and EU with dive). After that China and OCE are on equal footing but are on a fine line between 0 tier 1 teams and 1 tier 1 team.

Sure #21 could just be bait but on the off chance it's just not being able to articulate his thoughts properly, the OCE scene seems pretty bad all things considering.

1
Frags
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I think the value of being an actual team is very high, but I also think that it won't overcome a large skill gap or superior tactics, and in the case of USA/UK vs Taiwan it may have been both individual skill man per man on top of very solid basics, better engagements and as I mentioned, a favourable play style.

As far as I can see you're making a similar point to #24 but I think the U-teams in these groups had the unique situation of having a group of players that would be able to compete for the top in their region, in this current meta and everything south of the tier 1 teams like eUnited, IMT, Rogue or nV if fair game for both them and FW. Just want to note that I never mentioned them actually beating T1 teams, just the ones below them because right now there's a clear distinction of who's at the top of each region.

I'm not sure what you mean with the nationality bit and the part about them wasting their time since language is usually more of a barrier than nationality but a high level of understanding of the game tends to break that down a bit if you look at our Korean imports.

Now, of course not every region is made equal, the lack of cross region tournaments makes actually ranking them a very subjective thing and my main region for saying they'd have no problems competing with our region's tier 2 is because of the way they lost both those matches and how they had started to adjust their own play to try and cope. Though they had some level of success, their passiveness also gave the U-teams quite a bit of time to plan or react.

As a region OCE is most certainly weaker overall, but I believe that the top teams that came from their aren't. FW in particular might actually fall somewhere in our region's tier 2 if not at the top of it looking at the current scene, imo.

2
Frags
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Taiwan isn't in Oceania.

0
Frags
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Countries that start with U > all other countries

1
Frags
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Says a lot.

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