whats the point other try to make? ok lets investigate

1) Even SK stomping people would bring in mass viewers

2)I'd be shocked if SK vs USA in a playoff match didn't have more views than UK vs Israel

3)Why would anyone from Korea have any interest in watching the UK vs Belgium?

4) of course results have a huge impact do you think the same amount of people tune in to see Brazil get 0-4'd than they would to see USA vs Korea?

(this one is kinda stupid coz result of usa vs sk would also be 4-0)

5) while I agree it's the teams that bring viewers not always results

these are all things that support my point
most of this conversation im not trying to convince anyone to my point (because everyone says arguments agreeing with my point) but make people realise that their arguments are supporting my point not against it in any way, but right now im trying to convince you that im not trying to convince anyone to my point coz they already agree with it

Again more people will watch super popular teams play even ifs its "a shit show" then not popular teams that play "proper match"
and you said it yourself here:

Even SK stomping people would bring in mass viewers

so stop disagreeing with me (and yourself)

not really
1st only people who know what expected scores are, are poeple who are really interested in scene so theyll prodably watch most of the matches anyway

2nd biggest fluctuations comes from (as i said already so many times) from popularity of team/fan base (it doesnt matter if its asian or not, you just separated it in your brain because there are a lot of asian viewers and they tuned only to watch their team play while western scene is more connected thus people frim europe more or less but care about other eu teams so they tune into more matches) during frogue qualification match there were over 12k viewers on french stream and most likely more on english stream compared to usuall 2k-3k and again this match was popular because of fan base of rogue

3rd again spikes during SK, TWN or CN matches are due to popularity of these teams, again you disagree with my statemant by writing argument supporting it

4th most fans dont care about expected scores they just tune in to watch their team play (btw thats what blizzard said they want to do, build local fanbases "supporting" their teams so even they seem to agree that what matters to popularity of team is fanbase)

5th " you should get to see a better picture of the fluctuations that happen purely based on expected scores vs interesting match-ups." thats not true, what youll be left is popularity of teams amongst western viewers during matches of team russia there were over 10k viewers on russian stream compared to usuall 2k (look also argument about french viewers)

I seriously dont know if people cant read or what

i wrote that what matters is popularity of team not how interesting match, got downvoted and people keep arguing against me with arguments like this

Even SK stomping people would bring in mass viewers for various reasons but how many gave a shit about UK stomping Belgium and Israel?

and

If there are 100k or even half that consistently tuning in for some horrific and utter dog shit 4-0 stomps then I'm confident the proper matches should gain more and this Remiska sounds like a proper plonker, of course results have a huge impact do you think the same amount of people tune in to see Brazil get 0-4'd than they would to see USA vs Korea?

and

how many tune in for the Champions League final compared to the qualifying rounds involving teams from Gibraltar? etc etc etc

and

I'd be shocked if SK vs USA in a playoff match didn't have more views than UK vs Israel so your argument is stupid remiska.

and

if UK made it all the way to the final to play SK you trying to tell me more people wouldn't turn in than they did for the stomps of Belgium and Israel?

you do realise these are not arguments against my statemant but actualy supporting it?

1st point is just shallower 2nd
and i dont know who agrees with 2nd

every team hase fan base and thats what matters about viewership mainly, then you add other variables like how interesting match is going to be what time its gona be and so on but these are only small (when compared to fanbase) changes

what started this whole disscusion is argument that because this quyalifier has onesided matches its not popular and i said its not why but because it doesnt have that many interesting teams

everyone disagrees by writing arguments supporting my point

btw when i argued last time persone i argued with disagreed with my arguments then agreed with same arguments writen by someone else and i got downvoted by writing thats a hipocrisy and here people write arguments supporting my point and disagree with me

but thats exactly the point, what matters is base viewership

korea has large base viewership and even though results were obvieus a lot of people watched its matches

sydney teams have small base viewership and thats why even though games were interesting people didnt really watch this qualifier

Its teams that bringe most viewers

AGAIN thats exactly what im saying so how "time will tell" if im write if you already agreed with my point here?

And yet still in playoffs korean matches will have more viewers then australia, why? not because it will have more interesting matches but because its more popular team

ok look at it this way
-sk team has 100k fans or people interested in and lets make it their base viewers, lets say they play super boring match so some people dont watch so there are 80k viewers (exaggerated)
-now austria, much less popular so it has 10k fans but thay play super interesting match so more people tune in and there are 20k viewers (exaggerated)

learn to understand what you read and as you said yourself "use your head"

still there is no way they will have more viewers then sk because sk is more popular team

and about usa, usa is much less popular then sk thats why
you need to look at every teams popularity seperatly

If people know what the result is, only the real eSport lovers are going to tune in

well only esport fans would know the result before hand

FAN BASES are what matters to viewership (i called it earlier popularity) every team has different size of fanbase and thus you cant compare one teams popularity to anothers

my argument is teams bring viewers not results

Ok let me explain coz again there are people writing completly oposing things in one comment

If there are 100k or even half that consistently tuning in for some horrific and utter dog shit 4-0 stomps then I'm confident the proper matches should gain more

and then

do you think the same amount of people tune in to see Brazil get 0-4'd than they would to see USA vs Korea?

i agree that A LOT of people would tune in but the thing is korea vs usa would be a total stomp and usa would get demolished 4-0 (or whatever the formant would be) so its not the result that would matter for number of viewers but that 2 popular teams are playing right?

So winter said that because games were 4-0s people dont watch and i said thats a stupid argument and that people watch games for teams then you defended your argument with

How is it stupid lmao? Why would anyone from Korea have any interest in watching the UK vs Belgium? Korea are popular both in the West and East, which most Western countries don't have in the East. No to mention the ridiculous time zone differences. Use your head before calling someone's argument stupid.

And only thing you mentioned is that korea is a pupular team and thats clearly argument supporting my point

Here i again keep saying that people watch games for teams not results and you kuroi said

You're saying results have nothing to do with it, and I mentioned that expected stomping probably do bring lower views unless one of both of the teams are really fun/interesting to watch.

I think most people that aren't hardcore OW fans wouldn't be interested in watching a match that was predicted to be a horrendous massacre if it were not for the entertainment value of one of the teams. In my opinion the SK matches were an example of that. 4-0s were mostly expected but I think people still wanted to see how they were gonna do it after what they showed in that first match.

and thats again supporting my point that what brings most viewers is popularity of team not what result is expected, and i do agree with 1st paragraph but its a very small percent of viewers

Winter is saying your argument is stupid because you said "results rarely have anything g to do with viewership which is true but also not really an argument

yes thats not argument thats a statemant but i posted arguments supporting this statemant but ill repeat them here. Sydney was the most competitive qualifier thus prodably having most interesting games and yet its by far the least popular and that shows that people tune into matches of teams they are interested in not to watch interesting matches (again not results but teams matter)

and about it

By the way, Remiska, I'm not sure how old you are, but you tend to sound like an angry 16 y/o when people disagree with you. You may want to fix that since it bring 0 value to your arguments and actually devalues the legit posts you make.

im old enaugh but what gets me angry is when people write totaly oposing things and if you want i can show you exactly where last time i got triggered perdone i argued with disagreed with my argument and then agreed with the same argument by someone else but writen kindely

and here again people "disagree" with me by writing that teams like sk bring a lot of viewers but thats exactly what im saying

Even SK stomping people would bring in mass viewers for various reasons but how many gave a shit about UK stomping Belgium and Israel?

why does everyone "disagree" with my comment and then keeps posting arguments supporting me?

and this

I'd be shocked if SK vs USA in a playoff match didn't have more views than UK vs Israel so your argument is stupid remiska.

but thats exactly what im saying it will have a lot of viewers even though usa will get demolished coz these are 2 popular teams so how is my argument stupid if you post argument supporting it?

I said that match between sk and austria was super popular even though it was stomp and everyone disagrees with it by writing that

thats because korea was playing

but thats exactly my point so how can you disagree, by saying what i said

"it" factor as the SK team
I think the USA vs Taiwan match should have good viewership

so you disagree with me and then say that
thats exactly what i said, not results but teams bring viewers

again - result of game between south korea and austria was pretty obvieus still over 100k viewers watched it
your argument is stupid

and its an argument about what?

results rarely have anything to do with viewership, south korean matches were very one sided still got tons of viewers and for example poland vs austria in katowice was one of more exciting matches yet one of the matches with lowest number of viewers

Katowice had a lot more 4-0s then previous qualifiers, still was most popular by far, sydney was most competitive and was least popular, again results rarely have anything to do with viewership

Spectating

I feel like spectating so far is the worst out of all qualifiers, at times they kept camera at player after they died for pretty long and showing pretty much only attckers pov at payload (watch taiwan vs new zeland dorado new zelands push). This 2nd camera at times doesnt make sense yet still they force it (watching payload gets to checkpoint not contested needs 2 points of view? really?)
I feel like someone told spectators that boombox is great zen so they should show his pov so they do it but ignore every other support because "support pov so boring". Watching dps really isnt that entertaining at times but rather chaotic, give us more ana, zen, rein its really easier to watch this game from perspective of a static hero. Note i'm not saying to ignore dps.
I feel like spectators try to watch these "exciting" heros but a dragon blade from genjis perspective most of the time is chaotic not exciting.

Viewership

There were 2 youtube streams for all of the qualifiers but today was the first day both of these streams had large number of viewers so ill mention both

USA vs. Brazil
First game of the day so it started not that high but after the half it was at 50k (13k and 8k youtube) and peaked by the end with 56k viewers (15k and 6k youtube).A lot of chinese viewers (nearly 10k)

TAIWAN vs. New Zealand
lost fair share of viewers after earlier match and had around 50k viewers (12k and 3k youtube), by the end of 1st half there were 55k (11k and 2k youtube) viewers and peaked with 57k during 2nd half (one of youtube streams got striked :P 4k viewers on 2nd)

UK vs. Israel
Not that hyped match peaked with 48k viewers what was interesting is striking 2nd youtube stream now bopth were dead :P

Germany vs. Belgium
Least popular teams playing so mach started with 45k and from here viewership kept declining, to 43k by the half time and was at 40k by the end of the match. (youtube dead)

https://dotesports.com/overwatch/numbani-update-overwatch-16589
nice to see blizzard change the map accordingly to lore

tomorrow well see how strong usa is

Well.. thats what i wrote :P it should be more popular then sydney but thats it (last week someone belived that team usa would bring 100k viewers and i have no idea whyesport in general is more popular in europe)
I think usa can deafet uk but well need to wait see

and i know just missclick

https://twitter.com/FionnOnFire/status/896099026302451712 most important question answered xD

Viewership

Usa vs. New Zealand
As i said during katowice qualifier no way usa matches would have more viewers then korean.
At the beginning it had about 45k viewers but near the end it got to 52k (7k youtube).

TAIWAN vs. Brazil
More then previous match with avg around 54k and peak at 62k (6k youtube). Quite a few viewers from china (over 10k). I think during Taiwan vs Usa match number of viewers will be over 80k and mayve near 100k, still i dont think it'll beat last weeks peak.

United Kingdom vs. Belgium
After losing most of the chinese viewers it had about 52k at avg and 54k peak (suprisingly big increas in youtube viewer because it was up to 11k).

Germany vs. Israel
Least hyped match of the day and that was reflected in the number of viewers, around 46k (10k youtube) and peak at 48k.

Times of matches are terrible for korean viewers and there are not many popualr teams in this qualifier so i expect it to be less popular then Katowice and shanghai but more popular then sydney

Spectating

Untill 2nd half of Uk vs belgium match spectators showed nearly exclusivly dps players luckily later they showed a little bit more of beautifull perspective of zens balls. Again they kept camera on one player for very long at times (belgium attack on numbani sprees pharra for example). I noticed as well that at payload and hybrid maps spectetors show nearly excusivly attacking players perspective.
Your thoughts on spectating so far?
last weeks disscusion on spectating: https://www.over.gg/5104/owc-observing-katowice-edition#2

For exact hours of matches:
https://www.over.gg/5165/world-cup-2017-santa-monica-viewers-guide

Rest of the qualifiers
Katowice:
https://www.over.gg/5052/katowice-owc-qualifier-viewership#12
https://esc.watch/tournaments/ow/overwatch-world-cup-2017-katowice-qualifier
Shanghai:
https://www.over.gg/4815/number-of-viewers-for-the-overwatch-world-cup-shanghai-qualifiers#3
https://esc.watch/tournaments/ow/overwatch-world-cup-2017-shanghai-qualifier
Sydney:
https://www.over.gg/4893/number-of-viewers-sydney-qualifier#2
https://esc.watch/tournaments/ow/overwatch-world-cup-2017-sydney-qualifier

I'll post exact numbers as soon as their available
(i actualy deleted all todays data by mistake and had to recreate it from memory so it might be wrong in places :P)

i dont realy like breathing, its pain in the ass that you need to do it all the time

#stopbreathing

i have no idea what you mean #9 is envyus which is made up of players from around the europe (and korean) and #10 is kungurna from which there is not a single player in owc

cant wait to see them play

thats why i said i posted it to show which heros people like to play, specialy in quick play thats what these stats show

i dont share it to disscus balance or anything of this kinde, its just fun to see which heros are popular and people like to play (only exception beeing orisa which is underpowered and not popular and i think most people agree she needs changes))

Mercy most popualar hero in competitive, not surprising
and genji in quick play also not surprising

https://dotesports.com/overwatch/overwatch-hero-play-time-16565

on the other side of spectrum orisa 3rd least popular in comp and least popular in quick play (she is kinda boring to play) blizzard said their working on some buffs so we'll see what they come up with

all data is from 2nd august to 9th

i dont agree that its a waste, and what is suprising is the fact that c9 team based in na has london and kroenkes who has arsenal has la

Ill be honest i was suprised c9 sticked to overwatch considering they were not the most osuccesfull team and lose of main tank.

But while their certeinly not most succesfull org their one of the biggest and best established esports organizations plus i heard that they alweys treat their players well so its nice to see them in owl.

Interesting is also amount of teams reportedly and officialy joining owl lately, thats nice and might mean we're getting close to beggining of the league

LONDON IS MY LANGUAGE

With this https://twitter.com/Cloud9/status/895541433448321024 its onfirmed, honestly didnt expect c9 in london
nice to see some confirmed information with all the latest rumors (nv is still unconfirmed)

our little heroes they set on a journey from hobbiton to center of evil empire to fight its powerfull armies sadly they were too weak to win and darkness ruled over middle-earth since
:P when i think new zeland i think lord of the rings set

but it should be an easy victory for team usa

who doesnt get triggered in comp

fuck, thats why i should focus more on what im reading, i just looked at it and without properly reading i assumed he said nrg was top team :P now that i look at it it clearly sais selfless was top team which is true (at least in na)

not hulk
but i dont know how they are top team

i think taiwan should make it to blizzcon 2nd team beeing usa but maybe playstyle of team australia just was more effective against western teams and taiwans wont be, we just havent seen them play against western teams so we wont know for sure untill their matchs

and i agree with the thing about the casters

Prodably most interesting team - taiwan i cant wait to see how they fare against western competition becaue so far we've seen them play nearly exclusivly against oceanic teams and lets be fair, thats not the strongest of regions

and on a topic of naming, im realy curious how casters will call it :P

With more and more orgs leaving overwatch there are so many great players without the team that nrg can create realy great team, lets hope they dont fuck up

And what if you pop ult to save yourself (zen doomfist) and it takes youre ult and you still die? The problem is tgis game is online so you need to make it balanced even with latenvy

Over 100k viewers during group stages of owc disagree with you

Ok i saw enaugh of this commenr

That is partialy true for most korean players

And youre dumb one, "in ranked" seriously? You start talking about ranked games when talking about pro players?
And still taimou made these not meta picks like widow work in season 2 and 3 of apex

Also good job skiping everything else, very smart coz you just brought yourself into the corner with this comment

Ill repeat my cimment we havent seen enaugh of buds genji to judge but the games he played were realy impressive (lets wait for contenders)

Comparing buds and seagull is just impossible cox we havent seen enaugh of which so we cant say who is better

-Wow someones a hypocrit, 1st thing i wrote was that "with talents like shadder aand cwoosh" and you disagreed
-I haveent said anything about his streams
-What did i say in one of my comments? Oh right that "youre stuck in 2016" aka he used to be goodback then
-"I never said tviq is best dps in the world" you said he is best western dps which he isnt
-Why are you so stuck on idea that bigger hero poole you have better player you are? Ill repeat again taimou is amongst best of the best dps in the world and has small hero pool

Well thanks for this comment

Shadder is na

I think they might test new spectating tools during owc finals (a lot if time untill them)

Thats what i and kuroi just said just stop posting these idiotic and pointless comments
"Memeing around" is idiotic and pointless

Exactly this, someone who actually watches pro games
Yea last few buds games on genji were amazing, specialy how many multi.kills he menaged to get with blade without any other ult

I havent said anywhere they were in korea at the same time
About mobthly melee you might be right about seagull but iddqd just sucked as a player outside of nrg playing badly
Player can be good with and without big hero pool (taimou pretty much hit scan only stillbone of the bestvplayers)
Yes tviq is a flex dps for sweden and youvare overrating him a lot

Dva main thx

And youre acting like a kid because of "lul he misspeled twiq" like you never misspeled anything, if you dont have anything to say, dont comment